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 Post subject: VGM system support
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 3:25:28 

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OK, I know the VGM format supports chips rather than specific system setups, but we all know that if all the chips for a specific system is supported we can say that system is "supported" =P

So, what systems are supported by the VGM format? What other systems are planned to be supported? I think it may be a good idea to keep track of these.

First there's the Saturn/ST-V, which has a custom Yamaha FM/PCM chip in it (can't remember the name right now). Most Saturn games used CD audio for the background music and left the chip for sound effects, but some (like Sonic Jam) made use of the chip for background music. ST-V games were stored in cartridges, so those had no option but to use the chip for background music. Any chances VGM could support it in the future?

Another thing I'd like to see if possible is the Nintendo 64 - that thing used cartridges so streaming prerendered music was uncommon. Sounds like something that VGM could support. Then I can request Mystical Ninja 64 to be ripped :v

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PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 3:36:33 

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ST-V uses the Saturn Control Sound Processor, it has some FM channels. So, it can be supported. N64/Aleck64 uses a DMA-driven DAC (and is dual of them), probally is like WAV logging like the any normal DAC driver.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 8:11:32 

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Sega Master System (SN76489/SN76496, sometimes + YM2413)
Sega Genesis/Mega Drive (YM2612+SN76489)
Capcom Play System 1 (YM2151+OKIM6295)
Capcom Play System 2 (once Q-Sound is finalized)
Neo-Geo, I guess (YM2610)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 8:39:57 

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Code:
>vgm_tag -SysList
VGM Tagger
----------

System List
-----------
SMS     Sega Master System
SGG     Sega Game Gear
SMSGG   Sega Master System / Game Gear
SMD     Sega Mega Drive / Genesis
SG1k    Sega Game 1000
SC3k    Sega Computer 3000
SS*     Sega System *
CPS     CP System
CPS2    CP System II
CPS3    CP System III
Ccv     Colecovision
BMM*    BBC Micro Model *
BM128   BBC Master 128
Arc     Arcade Machine
NGP     Neo Geo Pocket
NGPC    Neo Geo Pocket Color
SCD     Sega MegaCD / SegaCD
32X     Sega 32X
SCD32   Sega Mega-CD 32X / Sega CD 32X
Nmc*    Namco System *
SX      Sega X
SY      Sega Y
SGX     System GX
AS?     Atari System ?
BS      Bubble System
IM*     Irem M*
TW16    Twin 16
NG      Neo Geo
NG*     Neo Geo *
NES     Nintendo Entertainment System
GB      Game Boy
GBC     Game Boy Color
GBA     Game Boy Advance
TG16    TurboGrafx-16
TGCD    TurboGrafx-CD
Tp?     Toaplan ?

That list should cover most supported systems.
CPS3 uses a custom sound chip, so it's only in the list for completeness.

The Saturn chip will be supported sometime, but I haven't yet started to think about how I handle 16-bit writes.


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 Post subject: Re: VGM system support
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 10:43:37 
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Sik wrote:
Saturn/ST-V, which has a custom Yamaha FM/PCM chip in it (can't remember the name right now). Most Saturn games used CD audio for the background music and left the chip for sound effects, but some (like Sonic Jam) made use of the chip for background music. ST-V games were stored in cartridges, so those had no option but to use the chip for background music. Any chances VGM could support it in the future?


Actually, Sonic Jam uses prerendered ADPCM for the Sonic 1-2-3-k tracks.

Sik wrote:
Another thing I'd like to see if possible is the Nintendo 64 - that thing used cartridges so streaming prerendered music was uncommon. Sounds like something that VGM could support. Then I can request Mystical Ninja 64 to be ripped :v


F-Zero X streams it's music to save CPU time (N64 used it's main CPU for sound mixing, so many companies used mixing in 22 kHz or less to save cycles for more important tasks), there may be more games like that though.

Anyway, please don't take it the wrong way, but is there really any reason for reinventing the wheel? Both Saturn and N64 have emulated sound formats, with most of games from each system already ripped.

Saturn/STV game rips (both streamed and sequenced) are available here: http://ssf.joshw.info/

N64 game rips are available here: http://usf.hcs64.com/


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 Post subject: Re: VGM system support
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 19:20:36 

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Knurek wrote:
Actually, Sonic Jam uses prerendered ADPCM for the Sonic 1-2-3-k tracks.

Not Sonic World though.

Knurek wrote:
Anyway, please don't take it the wrong way, but is there really any reason for reinventing the wheel?

We could have argued this before VGM started adding all the non-Sega formats =P (e.g. adding NES support even though NSF already handles that)

Knurek wrote:
N64 game rips are available here: http://usf.hcs64.com/

This would have saved me lots of time :v (watch as it eventually turns out I need Windows to play that...)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 19:25:22 
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Wait, you didn't know about USF files? :O_o:
I downloaded some packs back in 2004...

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PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 19:30:30 

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Tom wrote:
Wait, you didn't know about USF files? :O_o:

I don't know every format under the sun =P

Tom wrote:
I downloaded some packs back in 2004...

> Implying I was around in internet in 2004

Anyways, indeed it seems that the only way to play USF files is either with a Winamp or a Foobar plug-in... ugh. No USF files for me then, it seems.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 23:20:59 
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Sik wrote:
Anyways, indeed it seems that the only way to play USF files is either with a Winamp or a Foobar plug-in... ugh. No USF files for me then, it seems.


If you're using Linux under x86, both Winamp and XMPlay work fine under the latest Wine, so you might try that.


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PostPosted: 2012-05-04, 23:34:50 

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Knurek wrote:
Sik wrote:
Anyways, indeed it seems that the only way to play USF files is either with a Winamp or a Foobar plug-in... ugh. No USF files for me then, it seems.


If you're using Linux under x86, both Winamp and XMPlay work fine under the latest Wine, so you might try that.

Wine is horribly slow though. It manages to make GraphicsGale to feel like one of the most sluggish programs in existence, and that says something about its performance (GraphicsGale is one of the most lightweight Windows programs out there, to give you an idea). I really wouldn't want to know how it'd perform with something like Winamp...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2013-02-18, 8:36:53 

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Commodore 64 is not supported, and Nintendo Famicom is not entirely supported either (2A03 and Sunsoft 5B are supported, but not VRC6, Namco 163, FDS, and VRC7; to support VRC7 simply would need some header to make customize OPLL patch set).

You might say the PC is not supported since there is no PC speaker chip supported, but maybe it is not needed, if you can instead make the .VGM to use other chip with square waves, instead of PC speaker sound; but, I don't know if this is actually sufficient or not. (In addition, ZZT plays percussion on the PC speaker)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2013-02-23, 11:49:15 
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Personally I could see a use in N64 support. Saturn not so much, since ripping seems to be quite doable and a lot of games have been ripped, but N64/usf ripping has been notoriously difficult and limited only to a few people with the expertise, and as such, there's still relatively few games ripped. Anything that simplifies/streamlines/democratises that process would surely be very helpful.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2013-02-24, 5:33:27 

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N64 is probably noway as it does not have any sound hardware besides DAC & buffer, so logging such VGMs will be like recording PCM stream.


Last edited by tails_ on 2013-02-24, 5:33:42, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2013-02-24, 8:48:50 

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If N64 is ever handled in VGM, it'll probably be logged similarly to Q-Sound.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2013-02-24, 13:32:24 

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The QSound chip has a sample ROM and gets pitch, volume and sample start/end writes and the sound hardware mixes that itself.
But the N64, IIRC, does all things in software, so every sound driver can mix and process its data in different ways. That means, all you could do is logging a huge WAV stream to VGM.
You really don't want to do that.


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