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 Post subject: Hoot...
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 6:07:13 

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I recently came across a Japanese PC music emulator called Hoot... . Which can handle computers such as the PC-88, PC-98, Sharp X1, Sharp X68K, MSX, and FM Towns. It also emulates the music data of the computers directly, instead of relying on MDX or S98 files.

It has source code available, and I was wondering if VGM logging could be added to it. This would make logging VGMs for these computers a lot easier. As we currently don't have many options for logging them.


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 Post subject: Re: Hoot...
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 7:12:32 
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RichterEX2 wrote:
It has source code available, and I was wondering if VGM logging could be added to it. This would make logging VGMs for these computers a lot easier. As we currently don't have many options for logging them.


The source made available is massively outdated, it's from 2001 or so, and as such is of no use to anyone who would want to add VGM logging.

Hoot has a hidden option for logging S98 files (works for most of the Japanese PC drivers, but unfortunately doesn't handle X68000 PCM usage) - just add s98enable=1 line to hoot.ini, so you'd better be off writing a s98 to vgm converter.


Last edited by Knurek on 2012-06-04, 7:13:58, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 9:12:34 

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Knurek
Huh, that was secret option?

BTW, some time ago I spammed dmpsoft's BBS and asked about BBS
Quote:
 投稿日 2012年2月11日(土)19時32分 投稿者 chkktri 削除

Hi there. Again.

I'm trying to start updating packs from ones by Knurek (since last update was made on 2010/05/23).
As I understood I will need disk images/ROMs from games but I have some questions:
1. Are all games which resources ripped for now included in official XML?
2. Where to get ripping tools packs(or how do you call these?) for MSX?

P.S. btw will hoot support VGM logging someday?


And here's reply:
Quote:
Hi, again. :)

1> Perhaps.
2> There are in Kurohane Seisakusho. http://kurohane.net/

P.S.> I don't have a mind to do it at present, someone may or may not do it.

Now I wonder who else develop hoot? :|


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 11:00:23 
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tails_ wrote:
Huh, that was secret option?


Secret as in 'nobody knows about it'. ;)

I have a slightly newer version of hoot stuff available here: http://hoot.joshw.info/

If you have some packs not available there, feel free to send them my way, I will include them there as well. I don't have the time to do some ripping myself, but I still would like to have all the new games that have been added since then ripped.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 15:13:54 

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To be honest i didn't started anything yet v_v
BTW, was you making updates according to this list: http://kurohane.net/hoot/whatsnew_old.html? And how did you made various PC/DOS stuff work?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 16:51:32 
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tails_ wrote:
To be honest i didn't started anything yet v_v
BTW, was you making updates according to this list: http://kurohane.net/hoot/whatsnew_old.html? And how did you made various PC/DOS stuff work?


This is what I wrote (ages ago) to datschge when he, AFAIR, wanted to know how to do Hoot set creation. Might help you a bit as well, if you run into any problems, I can help you as well.

Well, the title is a bit misleading. Ripping actual PC98/X68000 stuff
is a bit beyond my programming skills. I've heard from a few sources
in the know, that it can be actually quite easy if you understand the
systems properly, but still requires disassembling the driver exe to
understand how it's ticking, writing a patch executable that will act
as a bridge between it and Hoot interface and, well, debugging the
stuff until it works properly (not something that's easily doable in
Hoot as well).

Luckily, our Japanese friends provide us with ready patches, and as
usual one sound driver can be used in many games, which does simplify
the process immensely (PMD is used in about 100 games, and the patch
file is compatible with PC driver PMDIBM as well, adding about 20
games to the total).

Though if you're interested I can share what little I know. There are
some games that *should* be pretty easy to add basing on existing
patches (Cal III and most other Birdy Soft games for instance, IBM PC
Celtic Legends). Still, some x86 or MC68000 low level knowledge required.

The patches are available at these sites:

http://dmpsoft.s17.xrea.com/hoot
http://kurohane.net/hoot

First one has rips mainly by UME-3, they are usually selfcontained, ie
have the patch file, filerippers if necessary, xml file with set
definition all in a single archive. He has been putting CRC
information for a while as well, so you can easily check if you have
the good copy of the game (obviously first thing you should check if
the rip isn't playing correctly).

Kurogane's site is more like a rip hub, containing data from a few
sources. It's organized by publisher, and the page has separate xml
file (uns_firm.xml which gets deleted every new proper Hoot version.
Don't worry though, all the data is included in mainline xml, so it
doesn't just get lost). Link named [”őŤl] has the rip notes if there
are any (batch files for extracting the music/driver, links to
external tools, stuff like that). Patches and additional tools
specific to the company are also included here (if a game uses driver
from other company it's usually mentioned below the game list where to
get it from).

DMP Soft site is updated about twice a year, usually with a new Hoot
version, Kurohane's update frequency varies, sometimes there are large
updates every day (usually just after a new Hoot version as well),
sometimes a month goes by without nothing.

PC98 games come generally in three flavours.
1. Archive with all the game files (simple, just unpack anything's
that's listed in the xml definition, add patchfile, presto).

2. Floppy disk images. If the game doesn't use a standard DOS there's
usually data extractor utility bundled. Warning, some must be run from PC-98
enviroment (emulator will do). The extractors are written for one image
format (D88 in general), so if your copy has different files, just
convert them to D88 with VFIC (http://www.vector.co.jp/soft/win95/util/se151106.html).
If the game uses standard filesystem though (most do), those are extractable
either with VFIC (it can't handle Japanese filenames though) or from
emulation (boot from HDD, mount floppy images, use standard DOS
commands to copy the files)
Example:
A:\>md temp
A:\>b:
B:\>copy *.* a:\temp

Another thing of note, some games require to be installed (the floppy
data files are compressed). Most of the games are a simple affair (one
file, generally called hdinst.bat/.exe), but some cases had me yanking
my hair for weeks (later elf games required having the disc images
write protected during install (something only NFD format allows) then
running the install program from the install directory on hard drive).

DO NOT use Anex's anxdiet to extract the files from floppies. While
generally it can extract all files, sometimes it just freaks out and
renames the files while extracting (ie. 1.fil doesn't have any
content, 2.fil has 1.fil content, etc).

3. Hard drive images. Anex ones (HDI) are extractable with anxdiet
(standart Windows drag'n drop operations), T98-Next ones (NHD) with
DiskExplorer (http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA013937 ... index.html)

If you can't spot some of the required files in the game install, they
are usually in some large datafiles (look at the rip notes for the
game on how to extract them). Some tools (UNPACK.EXE for example) must
be run from the emulator.

Some of the games I've added had me ripping the music data from memory
(well, emulator savestates), though I really doubt you'd need to do
something like that.

X68000 games generally use the same guidelines (VFIC does handle them
fine as well), PC-88 and X1 games don't really use standard
filesystems, so there are almost always custom extractors packed with the
driver patch). X1 disk can come in 2D format, they can be converted to
d88 with 2D Tools (http://www.jsdi.or.jp/~imp/2dtools1.lzh)

I don't think I need to write about putting all the ripped data into
zips, it's pretty selfexplaing. One note though, some games use files
with Japanese characters. While Hoot and Windows in general don't have
much problem with that, zip does. I've been changing the filenames to
file01 and similar, of course you have to edit the XML files as well.

Any questions? If you want I can whip up some of the more nasty
examples.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 17:23:41 

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Ooh, that's some nice info.
note: VFIC as well as lot's of other japanese Win32 programs (hoot with zip files with japanese filenames too) works just great with Applocale (which can't be said about Win16/DOS)

Questions:
How did you extracted data from savestates? (and was that PC-88 games from which you riped ADPCM?)
Also was that you making firecracker rips?

I remember seeing on Tokugawa forums thread about some D88 tool which was able to point where filetable is located, i wonder if it's actually possible to extract files from protected images.

And can you provide me basic PC-98 (and x68?) HDD image with OS installed? This will greatly help with HDD-installable games^^


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 19:20:20 
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tails_ wrote:
And can you provide me basic PC-98 (and x68?) HDD image with OS installed? This will greatly help with HDD-installable games^^


Here you go.
PC98: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ohjcok
X68k: http://www.sendspace.com/file/u4uv14


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-04, 19:57:39 

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 2:32:28 

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Wait, this thing can do Arcade music as well!? :shock: I think I just found my replacement for M1! 8|

Image

Still a shame VGM can't do Namco's C30 chip yet.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 2:50:05 

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Hoot don't has support for some newer roms that is supported in M1 (eg.: MD/GEN games). But also support some games that don't has a driver on M1 (eg.: Sega System 24 games).

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 Post subject: Hoot vs M1
PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 3:30:38 

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It also doesn't have a lot of the issues that M1 currently has with certain sets. Galaxy Force 2 plays at correct speed and pitch, as does Space Harrier. Furthermore, some of the Konami sets play a bit faster in this compared to M1 (The Simpsons, Super Contra). And Rollergames played through Hoot has a much different sounding title screen tune compared to M1. This definitely needs looking into further.


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 Post subject: Re: Hoot vs M1
PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 7:42:50 
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RichterEX2 wrote:
It also doesn't have a lot of the issues that M1 currently has with certain sets. Galaxy Force 2 plays at correct speed and pitch, as does Space Harrier. Furthermore, some of the Konami sets play a bit faster in this compared to M1 (The Simpsons, Super Contra). And Rollergames played through Hoot has a much different sounding title screen tune compared to M1. This definitely needs looking into further.


It also plays Taito games using ES5505 correctly, compared to M1.
I really need to get around to adding all the newly added arcade sets, I have a backlog of ~80 new arcade drivers...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-16, 5:56:11 

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One odd thing I have noticed, though. None of the Neo Geo games I've tried play the ADPCM instruments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2012-06-16, 8:33:05 
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RichterEX2 wrote:
One odd thing I have noticed, though. None of the Neo Geo games I've tried play the ADPCM instruments.


Weird, it's true.
Ah, I see what's happened, they changed the ADPCM load option from 'adpcm' to 'adpcma' and 'adpcmb'.
Easy enough to fix, though, just edit the xml files with the neogeo games.

here you go, should fix all games:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/qg8sx


Last edited by Knurek on 2012-06-16, 8:53:44, edited 1 time in total.

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