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PostPosted: 2012-01-22, 20:20:44 
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Hi.

Recently I've been trying to find a way to extract instrument samples out of Neo Geo games to use in a DAW - I was wondering if anyone had any idea how to achieve this.

Judging from the specifications of the Neo Geo's YM2610 chip, the samples are stored as either 4-bit, 18.5khz ADPCM, or at a varying rate up to 55.5khz. I've had some sucess opening Neo Geo ROM files and VGMs in Goldwave as an ADPCM file, but the resulting playback is very distorted and impossible to be used.

Would anyone know the correct way to get the ADPCM samples out of a Neo-Geo game, or open the VGMs as the 'right kind' of ADPCM file to cut them out manually?


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PostPosted: 2012-01-23, 0:34:05 

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At first you need to know, that the YM2610 has two types of ADPCM.
The first one (which is also known as ADPCM-A) is the one that's used for most samples, because the YM2610 has 6 channels that play ADPCM-A data.
The second one (which is known as ADPCM-B) is used by the YM DELTA-T chip that's included with YM2608, YM2610 and Y8950 sound chips. There's only one channel for it, so it's not used as much.


I discussed this a little with someone called FRONT on SMSPower, but since vgmrips is now the place for such discussions, I didn't post there. But here are some links:
For converting ADPCM-A, use the attachment of this post by FRONT.
For converting ADPCM-B (or DELTA-T), use the tool I posted here.


Extracting sample data from VGMs is fairly easy:
At first search for the bytes 67 66 82 (YM2610 ADPCM A data) or 67 66 83 (YM2610 ADPCM B data).
After that there are 4 bytes (in Little Endian) that describe the data size of the sample data. Then copy the number of bytes (starting after the 4 bytes for the data size) to a new file and delete the first 8 bytes from it.
(See the VGM specification for more information.)

Now you can use one of the tools above to convert the extracted ADPCM data to standard PCM.


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PostPosted: 2012-01-27, 23:37:27 
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Thanks.

It's easy enough albiet slightly time consuming to manually mark the end point of each sample from a vgm file converted to wav in Audacity.


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PostPosted: 2012-01-28, 0:05:48 

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If you can write C programs (or you know someone that can), you can take the source of vgm_sro and modify it so that it outputs the sample start and sample end offsets instead of making a mask of used bytes.
Or you can make it even write the sample data itself.

There are many possibilities.


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PostPosted: 2012-03-04, 11:13:54 

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Hello Guys !

I'm a new member !

This post, just to inform people who are interrested by ADPCM sample creation (and Ripping of course) for NeoGeo ... that a new tool with probably a Windows GUI is coming in a short time ...

Stay tuned : http://neobitz.com/ thanks you to JEFF KURTZ to come back to NeoGeo's Dev Scene after so many years !
concerning MVSTracker, the only tool to creat FM sound music for this system, the ADPCM Type A encoder was bugged ... (No sound on the real hardware) - Jeff have fixed this problem now !

Bye

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Fred/FRONT!


Last edited by Fred/FRONT on 2012-05-09, 11:49:27, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 2012-05-09, 12:05:01 

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Hello guys!

This does not concern the ADPCM this time (From Neo-Geo), but the YM2610 's SSG:
YM music, it 's possible for Neo-Geo !!!

This technical demo to prove that :

http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=59253 NeoGeo 3D ! by Oxygene (Thanks to ARNAUD)

I hope that this kind of Demo, will motivate MIC_ (*) for a Neo-Geo VGM player , after the NGPC ... Wait & see

>>ValleyBell, or somebody else: a VGM conversion of this demo with YM datas in the Z80 driver (ROM M1) is possible ?

Fred

(*) http://jiggawatt.org/badc0de/ Updated the NeoGeo Pocket Color VGM player.

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Last edited by Fred/FRONT on 2012-05-09, 15:24:27, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 2013-11-24, 1:09:24 

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i'd be interested in getting a modified vgm_sro that'd output wav files, if anyone makes it ...


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PostPosted: 2015-12-11, 18:20:33 

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Hi guys,

For your information :
NEW TOOLS for 2015 : 2 new Neo-Geo ADPCM-A sample encoder, available to the public & the Neo-Geo community.!!!

Jeff Kurtz/Neobitz released finally (after 3 years) his ADPCM-A Sound Manager (ADPCM-A only for the moment) and Z80 Driver associated, tool named 'Neo Sound Builder' (GUI V ROM/PCM file creator) for Windows.

> Release announcement : https://www.facebook.com/Neobitz/photos ... 19/?type=3

> Direct download http://www.neobitz.com/downloads/NeoSou ... ta_v11.zip
PS: Jeff work on future versions, with probably an ADPCM-B support.

Other information, freem/AJ Kelly (USA) released also his own ADPCM-A encoder (Command-line ADPCM-A encoder+source code and binary).

> https://github.com/freem/adpcma (V ROMS work fine on real NEO-GEO CD/type CD1-frontloader- tested by Blastar).
So -> ADPCM-A encoder is producing good output.
> Direct download http://ajworld.net/neogeodev/utils/adpcma_v3.zip Encoder TYPE-A for the sample !

If you decide to used this tool/ addon, you will need of this other tool developped by freem (an LUA script):
https://github.com/freem/freemlib-neoge ... orvrom/lua Sailor VROM (Lua version) v0.20, is a Neo-Geo V ROM/.PCM file builder
> Direct download http://www.ajworld.net/neogeodev/utils/copylua.7z realease by Tonma/French dev (Lua, batch files, example samples)


I welcome Freem, who joined the VGM Rips's forum this year ... -> this is his first post in this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1934 Neo-Geo V ROM builder?
-> since 2015-02-13, AJ found the solution: -> Sailor VROM

Freem release this Documents, Guides ('YM2610 Application Manual II')
> http://www.ajworld.net/neogeodev/ym2610am2.html probably the most complet Manual for the moment on the net (still in WIP)

To finish, Freem release also recently this sound driver :
> https://wiki.neogeodev.org/index.php?ti ... le_program

Very nice: It allows for testing the playback of ADPCM-A and ADPCM-B samples, both looped and un-looped. The sampling rate of the ADPCM-B sample can also be adjusted.

> Direct download NEOGEO ROM http://ajworld.net/neogeodev/examples/sound_loop.zip ADPCM-A and ADPCM-B test /source code and ROM included

PS2: We can imagine created some VGM Homebrew (VGM conversion with M1 player) for the NeoGeo system containing only ADPCM stream...

I take the oportuny of this message to greet again ValleyBell and all VGM dev,musicians who share their productions every day on VGM Rips !! thanks a lot Guys ;)

Regards,

in 2012, i build this ROM for DELTA-T BGM, and ask to a friend XCeL a test on the real Hardware
So -> The ValleyBell's ADPCM-B encoder is producing ALSO good output on AES ... need more feed back
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvXdLXcaeSE (sound test on Real NEOGEO= AES)

_________________
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PostPosted: 2016-10-24, 16:44:39 

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Hi everybody

Some very good News from Chris Covell And some Good Tools

https://twitter.com/covell_chris
http://www.chrismcovell.com/ADKMML.html Great Document for MML to ADK bgm

lots Videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cH0a-lgrmu8 F-Zero Big Blue music on Neo Geo (MML to ADK example)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXAlOZtr2WE ADK Neo Geo game music extracted to MML Example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63HW14lo-0o Magician Lord all FM instruments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-SvKZTG90 Magician Lord all ADPCM-A samples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v37qcL9x-3M Magician Lord all ADPCM-B samples

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVDAEgCsMGU Neo-Geo sound channel solos - Blue's Journey / Raguy stg.1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaXOBpUm_yA Neo-Geo sound channel solos - Magician Lord stg.1

Fred /FRONT

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PostPosted: 2016-10-25, 2:35:13 

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Ha, nice find and congrats to Chris for finding that. That is quite fascinating. It looks like they didn't even bother with any intermediary formats, they literally just write the music as raw MML straight into the ROM.

Edit: Decided to look a little further into this and it looks their earlier games (Alpha68K hardware with YM2413 etc) has a similar MML format.


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PostPosted: 2017-12-28, 17:44:04 

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for information
The 25 December, 2017, Blastar (the great German Homebrewer from the NeoGeo Scene) release his 'NGFX Soundbuilder'

The GUI (inspired by NeoBitz) but with new Features in comparison to 'NeoSoundBuilder beta v11', like Adpcm-B+ CDDA support and more Players-Commands, Import/Export wav and original Neo adpcm-A+B Sample).
discover by yourself this great tool !!!

-To download this great tool, please visit his Blog: http://blastar.citavia.de/
I hope For all vgmrips members, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year filled with all the good stuff!
regards

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Fred/FRONT!


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PostPosted: 2020-09-14, 0:38:49 

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Hi all
sorry, i've not been active for years, been very busy
i'm still very interested in finding a proper way to extract neogeo ADPCM A/B samples
tried to tweak Hex editors following Valleybell's advices, but as i'm new to it, it's a hell for me ...
has anyone made his own tool to make it ? (i mean, with a correct not saturated sound quality)
thanks


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PostPosted: 2021-03-11, 19:41:00 
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I second this, I have no problem sourcing the FM instruments but I too am having a hard time extracting PCM samples.

Any help would greatly be appreciated as I would love to do some Neo Geo style covers one day!


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PostPosted: 2022-02-23, 19:46:45 

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hello to all,
I share with you this link that I discovered a few weeks ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkyeJr9TW6s NEO GEO YM2610 PCM Samples Pack (Beta version) by TheLegendofRenegade
...and take a look on his the Google Drive folder to download the WAV rips to create new remixes for the Neogeo
...and a big thanks to him
best regards,

Update:
a service request, to convert 'Black tiger' VGMs from YM2203×2 (6 FM) To Ym2610B, for a proof of concept...
it's about this project ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU00FvSo2sI 'NeoBlackTiger' prototype by RetroGeo/ozzyyzzo (for the moment concerning the BGM, All Tracks are monaural ADPCM streams , ... No FM at all )
Note: I know neogeo does not support YM2610B (6 FM), but maybe could be possible on Furrtek's Neo Geo FPGA Core ?

The solution, maybe use 2 Python scripts available on the vgmrips forum:
1/ converting ym2203 vgm to ym2612/ by l_oliveira and then 2/ (YM2612 + SN76489) to YM2610B / YM2608 VGM converter /by drr(dan-rodrigues)
then, it may be possible to perform tests on trackers that support the YM2610B (Deflemask, or furnace, a recent multi-system chiptune tracker or maybe Bambootracker)
Thanks for your help

for information:
1 / https://github.com/GbaCretin Roberto /GbaCretin Currently working on: NeoGeo MZS Audio Driver + DMF2MLM and other stuff
1/NeoGeo MZS Audio Driver:
self-explanatory, for now it's meant to support ADPCM-A sfx playback and PA, SSG and FM music playback, with fade ins and outs
2/dmf2mlm: a Program that converts deflemask project files to a neogeo M1ROM running the Mezz'Estate audio driver
Converts various deflemask modules and wav files (SFX) into a single data section file that can be later appended to the driver to create a fully working m1rom

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmA1W7 ... Wdg/videos some Arrangements by GbaCretin [NeoGeo; YM2610] using DefleMask v1.0.4.

for the moment this driver (in WIP) is developing for an Homebrew Game, named 'Project Neon' by FullSet (Neo Geo)
https://fullset.io/pages/project-neon-s ... march-2021 Let there be (FM) sound
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fu ... ts/2683468 Let's talk all things
https://fullset.io/pages/project-neon-s ... march-2021 Let there be (FM) sound
https://soundcloud.com/fullset-music some creations by freezedream


2/ https://github.com/Kannagi/NGDK/tree/master/Sound
https://twitter.com/Kannagichan2/status ... 7598260229 The beginning of a sound driver for the Neo Geo & Bambootracker
the Kannagi's driver allows to make YM2608 music which is converted for the YM2610 ...could also be useful for OPNA scene...

_________________
Fred/FRONT!


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