VGM preset dumper pre-release feedback

neologix · Post by **neologix** » 2013-01-18, 4:47:25

So I have a VGM preset dumper in development. It currently dumps YM2612 presets to TFI and TYI formats (using Shiru's VGM2TFI preset-finding algorithm), with the next formats being GensKMod's Y12 format, maybe VGI format (I have to double-check the difference btwn VGI and TFI), and then ValleyBell's YM2612 formats.

Q1 - What other YM2612-based formats would y'all like to see presets for? Keep in mind an app like DefleMask supports many (if not all) of the ones I listed above, so if you want a DefleMask-compatible format, use either the TFI/VGI or Y12 dumps.

I plan on tackling YM2151 preset dumping after I finish the YM2612. I'll dump YM2151 to OPM for use in VOPM, but I won't dump YM2612 to OPM since we now have a YM2612 VSTi to use (even though its preset import functionality is kind of broken for now).

Q2 - Are there any other formats y'all can suggest for dumping YM2151 presets?

Eventually the app will be expanded to allow dumping of stuff like ROM tables into usable waveforms or soundfonts or whatever. That's way later, though, and almost certainly the first chip I'll tackle in that regard will be QSound.

jrlepage · Post by **jrlepage** » 2013-01-19, 13:53:09

Is it possible to dump YM2151 instruments to TFI/VGI/whatever for use in VGMMM and Deflemask? That'd be grand if it were possible. :)

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » 2013-01-19, 15:02:48

Also YM2608; this should be similar enough to the YM2612 AFAIK for the FM side of things.

I was thinking of trying to rip YM3812/YMF262 presets, though for the latter dealing with 4-op presets may be slightly challenging seeing as some editors deal with them differently. (AdlibTracker vs KingTracker presets)

neologix · Post by **neologix** » 2013-01-23, 1:40:45

jrlepage wrote:Is it possible to dump YM2151 instruments to TFI/VGI/whatever for use in VGMMM and Deflemask? That'd be grand if it were possible.

Neither VGM MM nor Deflemask have an FM emulation that even comes close to approximating YM2151; if there's something besides VOPM that emulates YM2151 in a sequencer or tracker environment I'll be more than happy to find out about preset formats it can support. I want to try out iYM2151 for iOS, but I don't want to pay that kind of money for it.

MaliceX wrote:Also YM2608; this should be similar enough to the YM2612 AFAIK for the FM side of things.

YM2608 will probably only be ripped to TFI/VGI, mainly because I'm not familiar with whatever format MVSTracker uses for Neo-Geo (YES I KNOW NEO-GEO IS YM2610). UNLESS someone points me to it. I WILL add .y12 dumping for YM2612 for MVSTracker MD use, though, mainly b/c Kaneda gave me the format.

MaliceX wrote:I was thinking of trying to rip YM3812/YMF262 presets, though for the latter dealing with 4-op presets may be slightly challenging seeing as some editors deal with them differently. (AdlibTracker vs KingTracker presets)

If there's a documented format for these chips in these trackers let me know and I'll consider adding them in the future.

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » 2013-01-23, 6:21:10

neologix wrote:
jrlepage wrote:Is it possible to dump YM2151 instruments to TFI/VGI/whatever for use in VGMMM and Deflemask? That'd be grand if it were possible.
Neither VGM MM nor Deflemask have an FM emulation that even comes close to approximating YM2151; if there's something besides VOPM that emulates YM2151 in a sequencer or tracker environment I'll be more than happy to find out about preset formats it can support. I want to try out iYM2151 for iOS, but I don't want to pay that kind of money for it.

Shiru's tool, VGM2TFI extracts FM patches from games that use the YM2151. They can be imported to VGM MM just fine. Not all games seem to work though. Maybe because of the VGM version or whatever other chip is used along with the YM2151, I'm not entirely sure.

Post by **ValleyBell** » 2013-01-23, 10:39:45

Shiru's vgm2tfi and vgm2opm work only with the YM2612 and they only read the first YM2612 chip. (i.e. they were made for VGM v1.50)

neologix · Post by **neologix** » 2013-01-23, 21:04:04

What ValleyBell said. The main reason vgm2tfi dumped from YM2612 was because YM2612 has enough similarity to his already-implemented YM2610 (YM2608?) stuff in the original TFM Maker, and vgm2opm dumped from YM2612 because there was no YM2612 virtual instrument at the time and VOPM was the closest thing.

Now that there's a YM2612 VST, we no longer need to hack YM2612 presets to fit into a YM2151 virtual synth. VGM2Pre aims to keep the chips separated properly - YM2612 presets for YM2612 synths, YM2151 presets for YM2151 synths, YM2413 custom presets for YM2413/VRC7 synths (IIRC FamiTracker can do VRC7, so if someone can point me to the format for a FamiTracker-compatible VRC7 preset file that'd be FANTASTIC), AdLib presets for AdLibTracker, etc.

ALSO - can someone point me to an SMS game that uses custom YM2413 instruments, or is this something I should ask on SMSPower?

jrlepage · Post by **jrlepage** » 2013-01-26, 1:11:14

What differences are there between the OPM and OPN(2) that would make instruments designed for one absolutely incompatible with the other? As far as I'm aware, they both use 4-operator FM with roughly the same parameters, but feel free to educate me.

EDIT: VRC7 instruments in Famitracker are just a hex string that looks something like this: $03 $21 $05 $06 $B8 $82 $42 $27 (this is the setting for VRC7 preset 1). Each one of those bytes represents a custom instrument register. You can read about those here (ctrl+f -> custom instrument registers). As a side note, it would be important that the output string in your program should be copiable into the clipboard, because Famitracker has no text field where you can punch in an instrument, only a Copy and a Paste button.

neologix · Post by **neologix** » 2013-01-26, 6:32:34

jrlepage wrote:As a side note, it would be important that the output string in your program should be copiable into the clipboard, because Famitracker has no text field where you can punch in an instrument, only a Copy and a Paste button.

(emphasis mine)

BOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo. I'll just have it output to a text file that someone can open at their leisure and copy from, then.

jrlepage · Post by **jrlepage** » 2013-01-26, 16:33:57

Hey I didn't come up with that idea :p besides the way the VRC7 instrument window is designed doesn't really allow for much space for a text field.

Also I'd still like to know about the major differences between OPM and OPN instruments.

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » 2013-01-26, 18:04:00

OPM instruments are basically the same except they have two DT registers instead of one AFAIK.

Post by **ValleyBell** » 2013-01-26, 18:22:50

I think OPM and OPN are quite compatible unless you use their "special" features like the LFOs and OPN's SSG-EG.
There also can be other small differences like the speed of attack/release/... rates, which is probably a bit differrent between OPN and OPM, because they rely on the chip clock.

EDIT: tails_ reminded me that there's also this DeTune 2 setting on OPM that OPN lacks.

jrlepage · Post by **jrlepage** » 2013-01-26, 19:39:52

Are these differences too great to prevent dumping OPM instruments for use with OPN-compatible programs?

Raijin · Post by **Raijin** » 2013-01-26, 20:44:50

I'm telling you guys, vgm2tfi can dump patches from YM2151 VGM's. I've already done it before =\

All that really needs to be done is to have the program look at one Detune setting instead of having it look at two, and also not try to find SSG-EG settings. That is, if you want to convert OPM patches to OPN. They are very much the same. It's just as ValleyBell says though, so it's possible to copy them over, just don't expect them to sound exactly the same, right?

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » 2013-01-27, 8:14:20

HVR (Hoot Voice Ripper) can capture OPN/OPNA/OPNB/OPM registers and all are capable of saving to OPM. Yes OPN voices while they are compatible with OPM, chip behaviours do exhibit slight differences in modulation behaviour, as far as the emulated implementation indicates. On the other hand, they sound correct after bringing the OPM conversion to an OPN synth.

I'll paste an example of a bass patch I tried to rip from a Ryu Umemoto soundtrack a while back at some point.